Ben Shapiro confronted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky over allegations of Christian persecution and forcibly conscripting men off the street in a face-to-face interview in war-torn Kyiv this week.
Shapiro questioned Zelensky on the concerns that he has cracked down on the religious freedom of the Russian Orthodox Church — marking one of the first times the Ukrainian leader has been pressed on such issues by a member of the American media.
“There have been a lot of accusations that there’s been a crackdown on religious freedom in Ukraine, particularly with regard to the Russian Orthodox Church,” Shapiro said. “Maybe you can respond to the accusations that there’s a restriction on religious freedom with regard to Russian Orthodox in Ukraine.”
Zelensky started off by observing that Shapiro witnessed him moments before the interview holding a meeting with the leaders of 15 different religious sects who make up the All-Ukrainian Council of Churches and Religious Organizations.
“We have a meeting like that a couple of times per year, and I truly visit some of the churches’ sites,” he said. “I believe that what Ukraine has is the largest council of churches in Europe. All of our churches are united — different religions, different believers, and everyone is united.”
Zelensky said that there is no pressure on religious institutions generally, but admitted that the Ukrainian government has cracked down on some churches that he believes are working on behalf of Russia’s intelligence agency.
“The Moscow church is just another agency of the KGB,” Zelensky said. “Everyone knows that Russia’s special services are in control of the church.”
Zelensky said that the churches must be free of influence and that “Moscow cannot be in control.”
“The legislative changes in Ukraine are related to the fact that there could be no connection between Moscow and the church,” Zelensky said, referring to a 2024 law banning religious organizations with ties to the Russian Orthodox Church. Human Rights Watch raised concerns about the law’s broad scope and its potential to target the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the country’s main religious body, founded in 1990 when it split from the Russian Orthodox Church.
Zelensky denied that any churches were closed but pointed out that he and Shapiro were outside the Saint Sophia Cathedral, a UNESCO World Heritage site, whose foundations are believed to have been laid in 1011.
“Sophia is older than Russia’s capital city and any churches they have,” Zelensky said. “That’s the answer. We shouldn’t be having any disputes. We have scientific evidence. We are just saying that our church should be free from any authorities. It’s free for the people.”
“Nobody closed anything or anyone. But it can’t be the case that Russia’s KGB is in control of the church in Ukraine. Everyone is against these legal ties.”
Shapiro also pressed Zelensky on the reports that Ukrainian men have been kidnapped off the streets and forcibly recruited into the military — a claim that Vice President JD Vance brought up during Zelensky’s contentious Oval Office meeting in March.
“There have been reports online that people are being picked up off the streets and in places in eastern Ukraine and recruited into services,” Shapiro asked. “How do you respond to accusations and videos like that?”
In response, Zelensky called the act “military mobilization” and said that it’s a policy created in accordance with martial law after the 2022 Russian invasion.
“The country is at war,” Zelensky said. “That is why we do have mobilization. We want the war to end…but as long as there is war, as long as we have the law, there is still mobilization.”
Zelensky downplayed the accusations, claiming that there are “different approaches” to military mobilization and that taking men off the streets is not “the main thing that describes Ukraine today.”
“No, Ukraine has 800,000 right now, or 600,000 people who volunteered to go to the Army,” he said. “That was the law on mobilization, but the people were volunteering to go and defend Ukraine.”
Zelensky added that the issue is “not massive” and that he believes law enforcement should be “making sure that everything would be transparent” and that there is “no coercion.”
“We shouldn’t be hiding that like a corruption,” he went on. “If we are fighting with this on an everyday basis — well, of course, you can hide it, like everything, as in [the] case in Russia or in some European countries — but Ukraine clearly shows that it is fighting on a constant basis against aspects like that. But those are kind of singular cases. This is not massive. That’s more important, and that should be reducing on a daily basis. We’re doing that.”
